WEBVTT Kind: captions; Language: en

00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:14.001
So I'm going to talk about moon bounce if
you have any questions because I know a

00:00:14.001 --> 00:00:19.000
lot of you are not hams and usually I
give this talk for people who are radio

00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:25.000
amateurs and telling them how
to become as radio amateurs

00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:26.001
to make use of the moon.

00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.000
You'll go to the communicating
place with my thoughts about that.

00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:33.000
That's the way it is structured.

00:00:33.001 --> 00:00:39.000
But if you're not a radio amateur,
you'll still get an introduced reduction of

00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:45.000
flavor of something that's really exciting
and that is that here on earth, you

00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:49.001
send a signal off and touch the moon and
have that signal actually come back and

00:00:49.001 --> 00:00:51.001
hear it and receive it.

00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:57.001
And most people find it really exciting,
the fact that we can touch something in

00:00:57.001 --> 00:01:01.001
space and come back and actually
control or see those effects.

00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:07.000
So let me talk about the
introduction to this talk.

00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:10.001
And this is basically what I'm going to do is

00:01:10.001 --> 00:01:12.000
I'm going to talk a little
bit about moon bounce.

00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:19.000
What I'm doing right now,
I'm going to talk about the history, why it's a

00:01:19.000 --> 00:01:22.001
technical challenge for those who
are radio amateurs or anybody.

00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:25.000
Talk about how to do it.

00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:29.000
I'll probably go over and spend less
time on this and arrange some other time

00:01:29.000 --> 00:01:35.000
when I have a higher
technical audience that can

00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.001
appreciate the more technical stuff.

00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:43.001
So how it's done and what you need,
I'm going to try and go over quickly and then

00:01:43.001 --> 00:01:46.000
conclude and open up for questions.

00:01:46.001 --> 00:01:51.001
There's a lot of interesting
questions that come out of this.

00:01:52.001 --> 00:01:58.001
OK, so one of the first things
is interesting is that how

00:01:58.001 --> 00:02:05.000
EME, I use that word, that stands for Earth,
Moon, you send your signal to the

00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:07.001
moon, Earth, the signal,
that's where EME comes from.

00:02:07.001 --> 00:02:11.001
So your signal, signal from the Earth,
you're sending the signal, I can use this

00:02:11.001 --> 00:02:16.001
diagram over here, the moon, the signal
gets reflected off the moon, just like

00:02:16.001 --> 00:02:22.000
you hear an echo, you have a big wall
and you say hello and the echo hits the

00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.000
wall and comes back to you,
except the moon's a little further

00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:26.001
away than the wall.

00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:29.000
They are.

00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:36.001
And it's interesting, as someone who
teaches about electronics, electrical

00:02:36.001 --> 00:02:41.000
engineering,
how many things happened here in New Jersey?

00:02:41.000 --> 00:02:44.000
I probably should ask how
many New Jerseyites are here?

00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:45.001
I'm biased toward New Jersey.

00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:48.001
A few of us here,
I was born in New Jersey, lived in New

00:02:48.001 --> 00:02:50.000
Jersey basically all my life.

00:02:51.000 --> 00:02:56.000
And it's amazing, truly amazing how many
things were invented in New Jersey, not

00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:02.000
just in electronics, but in general,
like the first submarine was done in New

00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:06.001
Jersey, and we get to electronics,
the first everything was almost, it seems like

00:03:06.001 --> 00:03:09.000
that was done in New Jersey.

00:03:09.001 --> 00:03:16.000
And the first accepted radio signals
bounced off the moon, basically was, not

00:03:16.000 --> 00:03:19.000
basically, it was done here in New Jersey.

00:03:19.000 --> 00:03:25.001
Now there were reports of reception of
echoes before this, where people had

00:03:25.001 --> 00:03:28.000
observed that they heard something that
looked like it was coming from the moon,

00:03:28.001 --> 00:03:30.000
but they couldn't explain why this echo.

00:03:30.001 --> 00:03:36.000
But there was nothing really scientific,
definitive in terms of, you know, we're

00:03:36.000 --> 00:03:39.000
going to set this up and we're going to
show that we received these signals off

00:03:39.000 --> 00:03:41.001
the moon and gather scientific data.

00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:48.001
That first occurred here,
occurred not too far away, over toward Red

00:03:48.001 --> 00:03:55.001
Bank or New Jersey, but it was [...
] we used to be called Fort Monmouth,

00:03:55.001 --> 00:04:00.000
but it wasn't really at Fort Monmouth,
close by it was in the Evans, they called

00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:06.000
the Evans area,
where they had a big antenna there, which was

00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:11.001
then very close to the amateur, which we
referred to as the two-meter band, those

00:04:11.001 --> 00:04:15.001
of you that are hams for radio amateurs,
but at that

00:04:15.001 --> 00:04:17.000
time the two-meter band didn't exist.

00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:23.000
Before World War II, there was the
two-and-a-half meter band, it was around 115

00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:25.000
megahertz,
and that's where the experiments were done.

00:04:25.001 --> 00:04:29.001
The person who was in charge of the
experiments, a lot of the people there were

00:04:29.001 --> 00:04:35.001
all radio amateurs, so moon bounces
had this thread of amateur radio

00:04:35.001 --> 00:04:37.001
in it, even from the very beginning.

00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:42.001
Now there was another set of experiments
that occurred almost in parallel with

00:04:42.001 --> 00:04:48.001
the experiments that we did, which I found
always very fascinating, I should say.

00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:54.000
These experiments were done in Hungary,
a group in Hungary, and it was done at a

00:04:54.000 --> 00:04:59.000
frequency that was lower than two meters,
but they set up an antenna, or a wire

00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:03.001
type of antenna, and what they did is they
had a transmitter, and they would turn

00:05:03.001 --> 00:05:07.001
the transmitter on, they would send the
signal to the moon, and then they would

00:05:07.001 --> 00:05:11.000
listen for that signal
coming back from the moon.

00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:15.001
Now, because of the frequency they operated at,
the power, they couldn't detect

00:05:15.001 --> 00:05:22.000
that signal, but what they did is they
repeated this again and again and again,

00:05:22.001 --> 00:05:28.001
and they listened to, every time they did it,
they had another switch here, and

00:05:28.001 --> 00:05:30.000
here I'm getting a little bit technical.

00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:31.001
Am I okay?

00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:34.001
I don't know, you should tell me,
I think I'm okay.

00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:37.000
Is it okay here in the room?

00:05:38.001 --> 00:05:39.001
Am I okay?

00:05:39.001 --> 00:05:40.001
No, I'm not okay.

00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:49.001
So, what they did is they used this
thing that basically stored charge.

00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:54.000
So, if the signal was strong, they would
store a piece of that charge, and you

00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.001
call these things capacitors,
if any of you had physics or in high school or

00:05:58.001 --> 00:06:00.000
things like that, and they'd switch.

00:06:01.001 --> 00:06:04.001
So, it was kind of digital, they switched
from one capacitor, one second, and the

00:06:04.001 --> 00:06:07.000
other capacitor next second,
and they switch around.

00:06:07.001 --> 00:06:11.001
It turns out that echoes from the moon,
the moon has a certain distance, radio

00:06:11.001 --> 00:06:15.000
signals or electromagnetic waves
travel at the speed of light,

00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:17.000
so they go at a fixed amount.

00:06:17.000 --> 00:06:20.001
So, we can predict when we're going to
have an echo from the moon, because we

00:06:20.001 --> 00:06:22.000
know how far the moon is away, and it turns

00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.000
out it's about two and a half seconds.

00:06:24.001 --> 00:06:29.001
So, if they're doing this and they're
looking at the charge or the voltage that's

00:06:29.001 --> 00:06:34.000
on the capacitor, the capacitor,
that's two and a half seconds, right, after

00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:35.001
this should have a big peak on that.

00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:40.000
And that's exactly what happens.

00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:43.001
If you do this with a radar system,
you send a pulse out in the radar signal,

00:06:43.001 --> 00:06:47.000
you'll see two and a half seconds later,
you should have a big peak.

00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:52.001
They, of course, are making use of
what we call integration, repeated

00:06:52.001 --> 00:06:57.000
transmissions, and they're adding these up,
the signals that are random noise,

00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:00.000
they're going to average out to zero,
but where the signal comes back, it can

00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:01.001
add, and it adds up.

00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:05.001
And if they do this enough times,
they get a peak, and they also show, it was

00:07:05.001 --> 00:07:10.001
about the same time that you can argue
about who did it first, because they

00:07:10.001 --> 00:07:13.001
really took months, literally months, when they

00:07:13.001 --> 00:07:15.000
were doing this, to do this experiment.

00:07:15.001 --> 00:07:20.000
But they also showed that you
positively got signals from the moon.

00:07:20.001 --> 00:07:23.001
Now, one of the fascinating things,
because I remember when I was first reading

00:07:23.001 --> 00:07:28.000
about this, I think I was in high school,
or on that age, I was trying to figure

00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:34.001
out what they were doing, because they
talked about using hydrogen drives.

00:07:35.001 --> 00:07:39.000
Now, anyone in high school, remember high
school, not that one, though, any of

00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:40.001
you, taking chemistry in high school?

00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:41.001
Okay.

00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:43.000
What did you do with hydrogen?

00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:44.001
Thank you.

00:07:45.001 --> 00:07:47.000
Do you want to experiment with hydrogen?

00:07:47.001 --> 00:07:48.000
No way.

00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:49.001
No way.

00:07:50.000 --> 00:07:51.000
You probably know.

00:07:51.001 --> 00:07:51.001
[...]

00:07:52.001 --> 00:07:56.000
You do an experiment, same with
experiments in high school with hydrogen?

00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:59.000
Remember the hydrolysis of hydrogen?

00:07:59.001 --> 00:08:00.001
I certainly would not problem.

00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:07.001
Yeah, they would take, and they would
take and put two electrodes in water, and

00:08:07.001 --> 00:08:10.001
the water would separate and
look for hydrogen in oxygen.

00:08:11.000 --> 00:08:12.000
Water is H2O.

00:08:12.001 --> 00:08:15.001
One of that, H2O, H2O number.

00:08:16.001 --> 00:08:20.001
We have a correct tendency with that,
so you can teach on that.

00:08:20.001 --> 00:08:21.001
But they would do that.

00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:22.000
[...]

00:08:22.001 --> 00:08:26.000
Well, this group basically did the same thing.

00:08:26.001 --> 00:08:31.001
At each one of these points where they
have each one of these, suppose I call

00:08:31.001 --> 00:08:38.001
them capacitors, they had a hydrolysis,
a couple of jars, where the electrodes

00:08:38.001 --> 00:08:43.000
went into the water, and then they
collected the gases that came off of that.

00:08:43.001 --> 00:08:43.001
Okay.

00:08:43.001 --> 00:08:49.001
And then they showed that they had the
most hydrogen and oxygen at the jar,

00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:53.000
where there were two and a half seconds later.

00:08:53.001 --> 00:08:57.001
You can see that they wanted to,
that seems like they have these things full.

00:08:58.000 --> 00:09:01.000
Do you go over and experiment
in the feeding boxes?

00:09:02.000 --> 00:09:03.001
Well, I wouldn't want to do that.

00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:05.000
[...] and doubts.

00:09:05.001 --> 00:09:08.001
I'm sure they have a team there.

00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:11.001
They were pretty smart.

00:09:11.001 --> 00:09:16.001
The problem back when they were doing
this in the 40s is that capacitors don't

00:09:16.001 --> 00:09:20.000
hold their charge over a long, long time.

00:09:20.001 --> 00:09:24.001
They were doing this over weeks and months,
and the capacitors that had available

00:09:24.001 --> 00:09:28.000
were starting to lose the voltage they have.

00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:33.000
But when you go with hydrolysis,
the gas doesn't go quite the same.

00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:37.001
So they got around the
problem of the leakage of

00:09:37.001 --> 00:09:39.000
that you have in the capacitors' life.

00:09:39.001 --> 00:09:40.001
And that's why they did it.

00:09:40.001 --> 00:09:45.000
I always found that because it shows
from an engineering point of view,

00:09:45.001 --> 00:09:47.000
engineering's really solving problems.

00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.000
And these people who did this, developed
this experiment, they figured out how to

00:09:52.000 --> 00:09:59.000
solve the problem of detecting radio
signals that came back from the moon and

00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:04.000
with limited, very limited facilities to do it,
like a hydrogen jar, some long

00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:05.001
wires, a limited transmitter.

00:10:06.000 --> 00:10:07.001
And they were able to show it.

00:10:07.001 --> 00:10:12.000
Here in the US, we had a big,
big antenna, high power transmitter.

00:10:12.001 --> 00:10:17.001
In either case, we showed that signals
were coming back from the moon.

00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:24.001
Okay, now from an amateur point of view,
because remember I'm

00:10:24.001 --> 00:10:26.001
talking about amateurs, not the government.

00:10:27.001 --> 00:10:31.001
And even though the amateurs were there
in the government, amateurs were also

00:10:31.001 --> 00:10:35.001
very early interested in this
thing really very early on.

00:10:35.001 --> 00:10:40.000
Literally, as soon as people announced
that they were getting echoes from the

00:10:40.000 --> 00:10:44.000
moon, amateur said,
can we use this to communicate further?

00:10:44.001 --> 00:10:50.001
One of the things that amateur radio is
interested in always is to do something

00:10:50.001 --> 00:10:53.001
first, to do something over longer distances.

00:10:54.000 --> 00:11:00.000
And at that time in particular,
people could not communicate very far

00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:01.001
at the higher frequency.

00:11:01.001 --> 00:11:06.000
You have the short wave bands where
the signals bounce off the ionist.

00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:08.001
As you go higher in frequency, there's always

00:11:08.001 --> 00:11:10.001
people who want to do something different.

00:11:10.001 --> 00:11:14.000
You go higher in frequency,
people wanted to talk further and further.

00:11:14.001 --> 00:11:16.001
They couldn't talk very far, just the signals

00:11:16.001 --> 00:11:18.001
basically went right through the atoms.

00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:21.000
It turns out there's some other effects.

00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:23.000
I had more time here.

00:11:23.000 --> 00:11:25.001
I talked about different types of energy [...]

00:11:26.000 --> 00:11:29.000
But in fact, in those days, it worked 50 miles.

00:11:29.000 --> 00:11:31.000
People were going, I work 50 miles.

00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:32.000
That's fantastic.

00:11:33.001 --> 00:11:38.000
So they were looking at ways they could
talk further, communicate further.

00:11:38.001 --> 00:11:41.001
And if you send the signal to the moon
and the signal is reflected back to the

00:11:41.001 --> 00:11:45.001
moon, you can literally, any place they
can see the moon and where the signal is

00:11:45.001 --> 00:11:47.000
reflected back, you can communicate.

00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:51.000
You can communicate all over the world
at these very high frequencies, but

00:11:51.000 --> 00:11:53.000
normally you can only talk a few miles.

00:11:53.001 --> 00:11:58.001
And so that's where the interest was in
amateur radio because they wanted to

00:11:58.001 --> 00:12:02.001
communicate with further places,
have the record for the longest distance, but

00:12:02.001 --> 00:12:05.000
most stations worked all over the world.

00:12:05.001 --> 00:12:09.000
These are the things that
amateur radio operators play at.

00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.000
That's the games that they play at.

00:12:12.001 --> 00:12:19.001
And echoes were first reported by
amateur radio operators. 1946 was

00:12:19.001 --> 00:12:25.000
when the signals were first
reported here in New Jersey.

00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:30.001
In 1953, we had a group, and also that
group was in New Jersey interestingly,

00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:36.000
just a coincidence,
who reported having echoes from the

00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:38.001
moon in 1953.

00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:41.001
But there are certain
rules when you communicate

00:12:41.001 --> 00:12:43.001
and you've got to send the signal.

00:12:43.001 --> 00:12:44.001
It's got to be heard.

00:12:45.000 --> 00:12:46.001
The signal's got to be sent back.

00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:50.000
You pull this thing up, QSO,
two-way communications.

00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:56.001
And to make a contact or QSO in amateur radio,
you've got to meet these rules of

00:12:56.001 --> 00:13:01.001
being able to have the signal you see,
sending the information back that is

00:13:01.001 --> 00:13:06.000
unknown at the other side, confirming that
you got that information and having it

00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:07.001
going back the other way.

00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:14.000
And the group that was playing
around with EME back in 1953

00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:15.001
never made a QSO.

00:13:15.001 --> 00:13:21.001
In fact, people questioned that that
was being done at the two-meter amateur

00:13:21.001 --> 00:13:26.000
radio band, which existed after World War II,
two-meter amateur radio band.

00:13:26.001 --> 00:13:30.001
One of the most popular radio bands
in the world today is two meters.

00:13:31.001 --> 00:13:35.001
You see all these handy talkies, and you're
taking the classes, you end up with a

00:13:35.001 --> 00:13:38.000
two-meter transverter and things like that.

00:13:38.001 --> 00:13:40.000
Inexpensive equipment all around.

00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.000
So this was the band where this was going on.

00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:47.001
The first two-way communications
occurred in 1960.

00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:51.000
It was between Massachusetts and California.

00:13:52.001 --> 00:13:56.000
And the frequency was 1,296 megahertz.

00:13:56.001 --> 00:13:59.001
So that's about 10 times the
frequency of two meters.

00:14:00.001 --> 00:14:00.001
They did it.

00:14:01.001 --> 00:14:03.001
And I was involved in this.

00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:08.000
And again, I don't want to spend too much time,
but when I was in high school, I

00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:13.001
got interested in building antennas,
what was called the stress dish.

00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:18.000
And that brought me interested in EME.

00:14:18.001 --> 00:14:24.001
And I actually built the stress dish when
I was in high school, which was damaged

00:14:24.001 --> 00:14:30.000
when my first day in
college we had a hurricane.

00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:34.000
And again, I don't want to go into the details,
but I've been interested

00:14:34.000 --> 00:14:35.001
in this from going back.

00:14:35.001 --> 00:14:38.000
I graduated in high school.
I shouldn't say this.

00:14:38.001 --> 00:14:44.001
It tells you how old I am, but in 1960,
the same year that that two-way EME

00:14:44.001 --> 00:14:46.001
communications was achieved.

00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:51.001
And at that time,
there was a fellow by name of Sam Harris.

00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:55.000
And for the younger groups over here,
he was writing a magazine

00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.001
column every month.

00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.000
And he was like my idol.

00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:06.000
You know, it was really incredible

00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:08.001
fellow at that time.

00:15:09.000 --> 00:15:15.001
And his wife was also involved,
Helen Harris, in amateur radio.

00:15:15.001 --> 00:15:19.000
So it wasn't just an all-male
thing even back then.

00:15:19.001 --> 00:15:21.001
I remember her call was W1HOY.

00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:29.001
Anyhow, that was a very exciting time in 1960.

00:15:30.001 --> 00:15:36.001
And I got involved with this,
not to blow my horn or anything, but in 1976,

00:15:36.001 --> 00:15:42.000
I was the first person to communicate
with all continents by EME.

00:15:42.001 --> 00:15:46.001
I did that up at 432 megahertz.

00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:51.001
There was a group at 144, so I felt
really good, because I beat out the 144.

00:15:51.001 --> 00:15:58.001
I did it at a higher frequency than the
predominant lower frequency band, which

00:15:58.001 --> 00:16:02.000
was supposedly easier to do in 1976.

00:16:02.001 --> 00:16:05.000
And I got a lot of publicity from it,
a lot of fun.

00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:08.001
And I've been involved
with EME since that time.

00:16:09.001 --> 00:16:12.000
And so this gives you kind of a timeframe.

00:16:12.001 --> 00:16:14.000
And you go higher in frequency.

00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:16.000
We were talking about the wavelength.

00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:18.001
The antennas get smaller
and smaller and smaller.

00:16:19.001 --> 00:16:23.001
At high frequencies, for those of you who
aren't in amateur radio, you're talking

00:16:23.001 --> 00:16:29.001
about antennas that are in feet, like one
of the most popular bands for shortwave

00:16:29.001 --> 00:16:31.001
amateur radio is 20 meters.

00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:35.001
And 20 meters, you know how long that is,
because you know how long a meter is,

00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:37.001
over 3.5 feet, right?

00:16:38.000 --> 00:16:41.001
So if we say it's like 3 feet,
20 meters, the wavelength there is about

00:16:41.001 --> 00:16:43.000
60 feet, okay?

00:16:43.000 --> 00:16:45.001
They give you a comparison.

00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:51.000
When you talk about 432, that's 500 megahertz.

00:16:51.001 --> 00:16:55.000
And the wavelength is a couple feet, okay?

00:16:55.001 --> 00:16:57.001
About a couple feet in size.

00:16:57.001 --> 00:17:01.000
So you're going from 60 feet
to a couple feet in size.

00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:05.001
And by the time you get to 10 gigahertz,
this is you're getting up into the

00:17:05.001 --> 00:17:07.001
real microwave frequencies.

00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.000
A wavelength is 3 centimeters.

00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:12.000
It's about that long.

00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.000
That's the wavelength.

00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:14.001
So you think about the difference.

00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:19.000
The equipment, the circuitry,
everything becomes very sensitive to distance.

00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:26.001
And they push the limits of
this up to 47 gigahertz.

00:17:26.001 --> 00:17:29.000
So that's almost five times higher.

00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:33.001
So it'd be one-fifth of
that 3 centimeters in 2002.

00:17:34.001 --> 00:17:39.000
And there really hasn't been
a lot of progress since then.

00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:45.000
There's some interest in 87 gigahertz,
but there's really not been full two-way

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:48.001
communications yet in that frequency range.

00:17:49.001 --> 00:17:52.000
So that gives you a little background.

00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.000
And I got to look at my time because
I'm famous for running over time.

00:17:56.001 --> 00:17:57.001
I think I'm over here.

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:02.001
This period ends at, anyone know when I

00:18:02.001 --> 00:18:05.001
end? 330.

00:18:06.001 --> 00:18:06.001
Okay.

00:18:07.000 --> 00:18:10.000
So I got to get done well before that there.

00:18:10.001 --> 00:18:11.001
Don't let me go over.

00:18:12.001 --> 00:18:16.001
If I was in a class, I would be sure,
you know, when you're in a class and you

00:18:16.001 --> 00:18:21.001
get close to the ending time,
you hear this rustling, this background noise.

00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:24.001
You know, you don't need a clock.

00:18:24.001 --> 00:18:30.000
You know that your time is over,
no matter how exciting or what you're talking

00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:31.001
about or how important it is.

00:18:31.001 --> 00:18:36.001
Anyhow, talking about exciting,
why moon bounce?

00:18:36.001 --> 00:18:37.000
It's exciting.

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:41.000
And even if you're an on-ham,
it's exciting this concept of

00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:42.001
sending signals off the moon.

00:18:43.001 --> 00:18:47.001
In amateur radio,
people like to collect work, rare countries.

00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:53.000
You know, you come home and say to your wife,
you know, I worked in India today

00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:54.001
and she says, oh, that's nice.

00:18:54.001 --> 00:18:55.000
What else?

00:18:56.001 --> 00:19:01.000
But this is a lot of what amateur's radio
is involved with, whether you're at

00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:05.000
high frequencies, one of the most
competitive fields in high frequencies,

00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.000
collecting work in different countries.

00:19:07.001 --> 00:19:12.001
When you have people who go out to islands
that are little walks and they spend

00:19:12.001 --> 00:19:18.000
$100,000 trying to get a helicopter to
get out there, sitting their equipment

00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:19.001
up, and they work 50,000 people.

00:19:20.000 --> 00:19:21.001
Literally, I'm not exaggerating.

00:19:21.001 --> 00:19:25.000
Those of you who operate at HF,
no, I'm not exaggerating.

00:19:25.000 --> 00:19:28.001
There's a great, great deal of interest
because they want to get one more country

00:19:28.001 --> 00:19:32.000
to their list and stay at
the top of the XCC list.

00:19:32.001 --> 00:19:38.000
Well, this kind of mentality has gone
up in the frequencies, and people are

00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.001
interested in the higher
frequencies of working all

00:19:41.001 --> 00:19:43.000
around the world, collecting countries.

00:19:43.000 --> 00:19:48.001
I'm one of the fortunate people to have
the XCC, which stands for working in 100

00:19:48.001 --> 00:19:53.000
different countries,
at 70 centimeters and 1296.

00:19:53.001 --> 00:19:58.001
I wasn't first,
but I was in the top three in those

00:19:58.001 --> 00:20:01.001
categories of working different countries.

00:20:01.001 --> 00:20:03.001
It's really competitive and interesting.

00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:08.000
It's also interesting because
you can go to different places.

00:20:08.001 --> 00:20:10.000
I've certainly done that.

00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.000
I've done my own traveling and
set up equipment portable.

00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:17.000
This shows a picture of me
at home with equipment.

00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:24.000
This shows me actually in St.
Thomas, the Virgin Islands, where I had

00:20:24.000 --> 00:20:30.000
a business trip and I went out and we
set up an antenna to work bounce signals

00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.000
off the moon and work people
there a few years ago.

00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:41.001
If you're an amateur, by going on Moonbounce,
it's a way, if you operate at the

00:20:41.001 --> 00:20:47.000
higher, these higher microwave or VHF
frequencies, so way of you adding more

00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:51.001
places and getting more awards
if you collect them for working

00:20:51.001 --> 00:20:53.001
different distances.

00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.000
We look at the challenge.

00:20:58.001 --> 00:21:03.000
This talks about the technical
challenge of working Moonbounce.

00:21:06.000 --> 00:21:11.001
That you need, obviously, just like I
showed you in the beginning, you transmit a

00:21:11.001 --> 00:21:16.000
receiver, you transmit the signal up to
the moon, and then if you're listening

00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:21.000
for echoes, about two and a half seconds later,
you flip this to the receive

00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:23.000
side,
you go on the sun and see if you can hear the

00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:25.000
echoes coming back from the moon.

00:21:25.001 --> 00:21:31.001
If you're communicating with a station,
you send whatever your communications,

00:21:31.001 --> 00:21:36.001
you send out a call for that station,
and the station is identifier, is call

00:21:36.001 --> 00:21:41.001
letters, just like my call
letters are K2UIH on my hat here.

00:21:43.001 --> 00:21:48.000
And the other station hears my
signal being sent up to the moon.

00:21:48.001 --> 00:21:53.000
He knows that when he stops hearing me,
it's going to take two and a half seconds

00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:58.001
for him to respond to me because he
responds immediately, there's a two and a

00:21:58.001 --> 00:22:01.000
half seconds of time getting up there.

00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:05.001
And then if he immediately responds,
it's going to take the other half of that

00:22:05.001 --> 00:22:10.000
time, it's really two and a half seconds
round trip for me to hear him coming

00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.001
back, can't occur instantaneously.

00:22:12.001 --> 00:22:17.001
And we could talk a lot about this because
the person speaking here before is

00:22:17.001 --> 00:22:20.001
talking about space communications
and things like that.

00:22:20.001 --> 00:22:27.000
And some of the issues in space
communication and using satellites and

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:33.000
using the moon is a delay in communicating
up to a satellite for the moon, which

00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:38.000
is further away than most of the
satellites are, and getting back

00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:40.000
to it, that delay.

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:41.001
And it's really interesting.

00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:45.000
I could go on and talk about
that because you hear these

00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:46.001
things about drones, right?

00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.000
You know about a drone,
everyone knows what a drone is, right?

00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:51.001
Well, someone's piloting that drone usually,
right?

00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:57.000
But the signal has to get from the pilot
to the drone, usually that goes through

00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:01.000
a satellite to the drone,
and the control signal gets back.

00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.000
So that drone really has to
do a lot of stuff on its own.

00:23:03.001 --> 00:23:08.000
And when you start talking about doing
robots in space, the two and a half

00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:13.001
seconds, the moon is pretty, pretty,
how say, benign, short, compared to if

00:23:13.001 --> 00:23:17.000
you're trying to control a robot
around Jupiter, you're talking about

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:18.001
eight minutes or so.

00:23:18.001 --> 00:23:21.001
The signal just to get there.
So it's going to be eight

00:23:21.001 --> 00:23:23.000
and eight or 16 minutes to get back.

00:23:23.001 --> 00:23:25.001
So this all gets into it.

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:29.000
There's also an issue of
what we call path loss.

00:23:29.001 --> 00:23:34.000
And I'm not going to spend some time
and equations here, but there's a huge

00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.000
amount of path loss.

00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:42.001
Now, again, I love to talk about
physics and why things happen.

00:23:42.001 --> 00:23:46.001
And people think that there's
loss in sending electromagnetic

00:23:46.001 --> 00:23:48.001
electromagnetic waves in space.

00:23:49.001 --> 00:23:52.000
The truth is there's not. There's no loss.

00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:55.001
The incentive signal out in space is lost.

00:23:55.001 --> 00:24:00.000
This is why we can see light from these,
you know, quasi stellar objects that

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:06.000
are, you know, not millions,
but billions of light years away, away, because

00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:10.000
there's really no attenuation in space.

00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:14.001
This is an attenuated electromagnetic waves.
So you say why do

00:24:14.001 --> 00:24:16.000
electromagnetic waves get weaker?

00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:19.000
Anyone know why electromagnetic
waves get weaker?

00:24:21.001 --> 00:24:24.001
No, because I'm saying the atmosphere,
or there is a loss.

00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:27.000
Your atmosphere, the faucet atmosphere is thin.

00:24:27.001 --> 00:24:30.000
And if you go up in frequency,
our atmosphere becomes transparent.

00:24:30.001 --> 00:24:35.001
You go lower in frequency,
this wave spread out. Exactly.

00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:37.001
Think about it. You've got a flashlight.

00:24:37.001 --> 00:24:39.001
You see that flashlight being spread out.

00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:43.000
And the further away you are,
the more spread out it is.

00:24:43.000 --> 00:24:48.000
And if you've got a finite side antenna,
or a finite side linear eyeball, right,

00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:51.001
finite sides,
you only pick up a small percentage.

00:24:52.000 --> 00:24:55.000
The further away you are, the less percentage.

00:24:55.000 --> 00:24:58.001
Again, that's what's called square wall.

00:24:59.000 --> 00:25:02.000
Because it's everything, a lot of things,
you see the square wall, and it's

00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:04.000
really just the signal spreading out.

00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:08.000
And so as you go twice the distance away,
you only get one fourth of

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:10.000
the energy because it's spread out on you.

00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:13.000
And the further you go,
the less energy that you get.

00:25:13.001 --> 00:25:15.001
So that's where this path loss comes from.

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:20.000
And these numbers that I have
here are very large because

00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:22.000
the signal goes out, it's spread.

00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:27.001
It hits the moon, about 6%
of the energy comes back off the moon.

00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:29.001
And that has to do with the material.

00:25:29.001 --> 00:25:33.001
The moon is out, how smooth it is,
how flat it is, but roughly 6%.

00:25:33.001 --> 00:25:38.000
But then that signal now is spread
out again when it comes back.

00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.000
So it's spreading out when
it goes the opposite way.

00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:44.001
And it's worse than if you
went twice the distance.

00:25:44.001 --> 00:25:47.000
Twice the distance you were already elevated.

00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:53.000
Now, if the moon, though it's not a point,
it still causes a

00:25:53.000 --> 00:25:54.001
re-spreading of the signal.

00:25:55.000 --> 00:26:00.000
Like you're starting out at a point,
but it affects it and it lowers the loss.

00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:04.001
So it's like having a signal that you send out,
and then you re-send the

00:26:04.001 --> 00:26:06.000
energy you have out again.

00:26:06.001 --> 00:26:11.001
So the spreading is a lot worse than if
you went twice the distance to the moon,

00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.001
which is what you're doing
to the moon and back.

00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:15.001
So you get more path loss.

00:26:15.001 --> 00:26:18.000
Anyhow, there's huge path loss.

00:26:18.001 --> 00:26:22.000
And this is a great thing if you
like the challenge, because it

00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:23.001
means the signal is really strong.

00:26:24.001 --> 00:26:27.000
And according to this,
the higher in frequency you go,

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:29.000
it looks like the signal is weaker.

00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:36.000
But it isn't actually weaker because the

00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:42.001
path loss equation is built on this
concept of having a finite sizing attempt.

00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.000
And when you go up in frequency,
the antenna gets spoiled.

00:26:48.001 --> 00:26:51.000
So the antenna intercepts less energy.

00:26:51.001 --> 00:26:54.000
So your path loss appears to go back up.

00:26:54.001 --> 00:26:59.001
If you have two antennas or two systems
that are the same size as you go up in

00:26:59.001 --> 00:27:01.000
frequency, you maintain that size.

00:27:01.001 --> 00:27:05.000
Like with a dish, you have a dish
antenna receiving and transmitting.

00:27:05.001 --> 00:27:09.000
So when you put a dish, as you go higher
in frequency, it's still that same

00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:11.000
number diameter dish, right?

00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:14.000
So it intercepts the same amount of energy.

00:27:14.001 --> 00:27:20.000
You find out that your path loss actually
gets less, interestingly, as you

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:22.000
go higher in frequency.

00:27:22.001 --> 00:27:29.000
Because you're intercepting the same
amount of energy on the received side,

00:27:29.001 --> 00:27:32.000
but on the transmit side,
the beam becomes smaller.

00:27:32.001 --> 00:27:35.000
I don't want to spend too much time on it.

00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:41.000
I like talking about physics, and you'll
see that a very interesting experiment

00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:45.001
to take is take the sun and make up
a pinhole like a pinhole camera.

00:27:46.001 --> 00:27:50.000
Make a pinhole for a sheet of paper.
The sun is all contaminated and [...]

00:27:50.001 --> 00:27:52.001
So the ratings are parallel
about time you get here.

00:27:53.000 --> 00:27:55.000
They go to the pinhole,
they start spreading out.

00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.001
And the amount of spreading depends
on the diameter of the pinhole.

00:28:00.001 --> 00:28:05.000
The pinhole is very big.
You don't see any spread. As the pinhole gets

00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.000
smaller, you get spreading.

00:28:07.001 --> 00:28:11.001
So the gains is directly related
to the gain of an antenna.

00:28:11.001 --> 00:28:15.000
The gain of the antenna comes from the
fact that it's concentrating the energy.

00:28:15.001 --> 00:28:17.001
It's not sending the energy
into the corrections.

00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:22.000
And that's directly related to the
size of the radiating structure.

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:28.001
And the higher frequency,
when you look at this, the narrower the beam is

00:28:28.001 --> 00:28:31.000
on the transmitting side.

00:28:31.000 --> 00:28:33.001
But on the received side, you're still
receiving the same amount of energy.

00:28:33.001 --> 00:28:36.000
So as you go higher in frequency,
there's less path loss.

00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:39.000
So there's advantages to
going higher in frequency.

00:28:39.000 --> 00:28:41.001
Now, there are other practical limitations.

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:44.001
But let me go on. I don't want to,
as I said, I didn't want to get too

00:28:44.001 --> 00:28:48.000
complicated here to involve.

00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:51.001
We can talk about the technical challenge.

00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:54.001
You want the biggest antenna
you can possibly have.

00:28:54.001 --> 00:28:58.000
This happens to be a picture of
the antenna I have in my house.

00:28:58.001 --> 00:29:03.001
I've had that up for about 50 years since 1973.

00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:08.000
Amazing. That hasn't fallen on me yet.

00:29:09.001 --> 00:29:10.001
But it's still there.

00:29:12.001 --> 00:29:15.001
That was the largest antenna I
could get my hands on back then.

00:29:15.001 --> 00:29:18.001
I actually came from Bell Labs.
They were cutting it up.

00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:23.000
And I went there with a bunch of students
and we moved it back to my house.

00:29:23.001 --> 00:29:25.000
And then we figured out how to mount it.

00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.000
You want the highest power, obviously,
you can have now as an amateur, we're

00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:33.001
limited by laws to how high a power we have.

00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.001
But as you go higher in frequency,
it does become more difficult to generate

00:29:37.001 --> 00:29:40.001
those high powers technically.

00:29:41.001 --> 00:29:43.001
And oops, I skipped over something here.

00:29:45.001 --> 00:29:49.001
You want to have a sensitive
receiver as possible.

00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:56.000
And it turns out, I'm going to get
technical here, that when you see a signal,

00:29:56.001 --> 00:30:01.000
okay, the thing that limits you
is the noise that's present.

00:30:02.000 --> 00:30:06.001
Because if the signal is higher than the noise,
then you can hear it.

00:30:06.001 --> 00:30:08.001
But the signal is lower than the noise you can.

00:30:08.001 --> 00:30:11.001
And so what you want to do is
you want to have the lowest

00:30:11.001 --> 00:30:13.001
noise contribution you have.

00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:19.001
A part of that noise is contributed
by what comes in from space.

00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:23.000
[...] is your antenna,
your signal is coming in the antenna, noise

00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.000
from space is coming in the antenna.

00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:27.000
And that's frequency dependent.

00:30:27.001 --> 00:30:33.001
It turns out that some plays from around
500 megahertz up to around, starting in

00:30:33.001 --> 00:30:37.001
bigger hertz to around 10 megahertz
and even a little higher.

00:30:37.001 --> 00:30:41.001
There's very little noise if you're doing it.

00:30:41.001 --> 00:30:47.000
This is really noise, positive noise,
noise that comes in from radio

00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:48.001
stars, things like that.

00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:51.000
And there's very little noise contributed.

00:30:51.001 --> 00:30:52.000
It's like that.

00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:53.001
It's referred to as a radio signal.

00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:56.001
So your noise can be an antenna.

00:30:57.000 --> 00:30:59.001
There's some,
but it's really developed and low.

00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:05.000
But most of the noise contributed
by what used to amplify the signal.

00:31:05.000 --> 00:31:11.000
And what you want to do is design that
receiver so it contributes as little

00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:14.000
noise as you possibly can.

00:31:14.001 --> 00:31:16.000
And again, this is a topic we could get into.

00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:23.001
Radio astronomers pull their receivers
down to almost absolute zero because it

00:31:23.001 --> 00:31:26.001
turns out that noise depends on temperature.

00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:30.001
And the higher the temperature something's at,
the more the

00:31:30.001 --> 00:31:32.000
electrons move around.

00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:35.000
Second law of thermodynamics,
the more noise you get.

00:31:41.001 --> 00:31:46.000
So anyhow, you want to get the
lowest possible noise contribution.

00:31:47.001 --> 00:31:48.001
Excuse me.

00:31:49.001 --> 00:31:51.000
Yeah, K T.

00:31:52.000 --> 00:31:54.000
I usually say K T B.

00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:55.001
You'll get the ultimate's constant.

00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:59.000
You'll get that physics,
the temperature that you're at,

00:31:59.000 --> 00:32:01.000
and the bandwidth you're listening over.

00:32:01.001 --> 00:32:03.001
That you have some control over.

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:09.000
But it's the reason if you're sending a
lot of information, you have to have a

00:32:09.000 --> 00:32:10.001
lot of bandwidth to do that.

00:32:11.001 --> 00:32:16.000
And so what is the take?

00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:20.001
And I just say if you want to be a big gun,
you've got to do all of this.

00:32:21.001 --> 00:32:25.000
You can even talk in terms of single sideband.

00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:32.000
But most of the operation today on
Moonbounce is being done digitally.

00:32:32.001 --> 00:32:35.000
People have developed digital software.

00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:40.000
One fellow in particular also is in New Jersey,
interestingly a lot.

00:32:40.000 --> 00:32:43.001
By the name of Joe Taylor,
one of my neighbors literally.

00:32:44.001 --> 00:32:46.000
And he has a Nobel Prize.

00:32:46.001 --> 00:32:51.000
But when he's not working on his Nobel
Prize in physics, he spends time

00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.001
developing software for radio amateurs.

00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:00.001
And he's developed the whole technique
to digitally communicate, but gives you

00:33:00.001 --> 00:33:04.000
effectively very,
very narrow bandwidth to communicate and can

00:33:04.000 --> 00:33:05.001
become very efficient.

00:33:05.001 --> 00:33:08.000
More efficient than even using your ears.

00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.000
And the gold standard was Morse code.

00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:13.000
You send Morse code,
you make the signal very narrow.

00:33:13.001 --> 00:33:14.000
You can listen to it.

00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:15.000
People are very good.

00:33:15.001 --> 00:33:20.001
But if you use digital processing techniques
today, you can even beat what you do

00:33:20.001 --> 00:33:26.000
with a Morse code reception,
which as it used to be, the gold standard of

00:33:26.000 --> 00:33:27.001
receiving the signals.

00:33:27.001 --> 00:33:34.001
And much of the EME operation today,
a large percentage of it is done using

00:33:34.001 --> 00:33:38.000
these digital techniques
at this particular time.

00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:40.001
But there's still people who
like doing things the hard way.

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:42.000
You're always going to have that.

00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:48.001
And the hard way can be a challenge
that will make contacts via CW.

00:33:49.000 --> 00:33:50.001
And I should say, hams know what I mean.

00:33:50.001 --> 00:33:51.000
Does anyone know?

00:33:51.001 --> 00:33:53.000
A lot of you don't know what I mean by CW.

00:33:53.001 --> 00:33:57.001
CW is the thing that you hear da,
da, da, da, da, da, for the key.

00:33:58.001 --> 00:33:59.001
That's called CW.

00:33:59.001 --> 00:34:00.001
And it may sound strange.

00:34:01.001 --> 00:34:05.000
Why is it called CW?

00:34:05.001 --> 00:34:11.001
And it goes back historically when they
first started to send radio signals, they

00:34:11.001 --> 00:34:13.001
send them by a technique called squat.

00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:17.001
They discovered that when you have a squat,
jump,

00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:19.001
to be able to produce the squat.

00:34:19.001 --> 00:34:22.000
And the [...] the waves.

00:34:22.001 --> 00:34:23.000
And it was all waves.

00:34:24.000 --> 00:34:26.000
But that's how, that's what Mark Honely [...]

00:34:26.000 --> 00:34:30.000
He was producing the squat
transmitter and using [...]

00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.000
But it was basically all frequencies
coming out of the transmitter.

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.000
It was a very noisy phenomenon.

00:34:37.001 --> 00:34:41.001
And that's how radio began
using squat transmission.

00:34:41.001 --> 00:34:47.000
And so people realized that if
you could send a sinusoidal wave,

00:34:49.000 --> 00:34:53.001
this continuous tone, and that's where it
comes from, CW, continuous wave, you're

00:34:53.001 --> 00:34:56.001
sending a nice, continuous, sinusoidal signal.

00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:00.000
And this occupied, essentially, zero frequency.

00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:06.001
You have a very narrow band signal,
which means in your

00:35:06.001 --> 00:35:10.000
equation, it seems, hey,
these are very narrow band.

00:35:10.000 --> 00:35:16.000
You find that the limitation becomes one
of your ears and hearing things like

00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.000
that, not the exact filter that you got.

00:35:20.001 --> 00:35:23.001
So that became the dominant
way of communicating.

00:35:23.001 --> 00:35:27.001
But initially, the radio began to [...
]-done using the squat.

00:35:27.001 --> 00:35:29.001
[...] really sent the squat.

00:35:29.001 --> 00:35:33.000
It's like the squat wasn't one of the team's,
the squat was not at all.

00:35:33.001 --> 00:35:36.001
Produced the noise that you would
see when that was a signal.

00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.000
And then when they figured out how
to make this thing as a continuous

00:35:40.000 --> 00:35:42.000
wave, then it became CW.

00:35:42.001 --> 00:35:48.000
And that term has stayed with us,
even though it's not obvious what does someone

00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:50.000
mean by CW with the delay.

00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:50.001
It continues.

00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:51.001
I got to change it.

00:35:51.001 --> 00:35:52.001
I got to turn it on and off.

00:35:52.001 --> 00:35:57.001
And so there's a lot of
different ways to do this.

00:36:00.001 --> 00:36:05.000
And I'm talking here because I'm trying
to get people interested in this and

00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:10.001
saying how little an antenna
that you need to make

00:36:10.001 --> 00:36:13.000
contacts off the moon.

00:36:13.000 --> 00:36:20.000
And I'm saying here that I was
when I started out at the 1296

00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:26.000
megahertz band,
which is a wavelength of about like that.

00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:31.001
It's about 30 centimeters actually,
or close to it.

00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:36.000
That I started experimenting
with Joe Taylor's digital.

00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:42.000
And I was amazed that it didn't
take very much to work someone.

00:36:42.000 --> 00:36:45.000
Here is an example of one of
the first stations I worked.

00:36:46.000 --> 00:36:48.001
I first using digital techniques.

00:36:52.000 --> 00:36:57.001
And this was with a fellow OH3MCK,
that's his call letters.

00:36:58.000 --> 00:36:59.001
He was in Finland.

00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:01.000
Okay. Come on.

00:37:01.001 --> 00:37:08.000
And he was using 40 watts, where I was
using like a thousand watts or so close to

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:10.000
that to make that contact.

00:37:10.000 --> 00:37:11.001
And it becomes much easier.

00:37:11.001 --> 00:37:13.001
And I'm just going to give you some example.

00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:17.000
This is a relatively small antenna here.

00:37:18.001 --> 00:37:22.000
And, of course, when I ask questions,
I say, Where do you think this is

00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:24.000
happening in my class?

00:37:24.001 --> 00:37:30.000
And of course, the answer to the question
is usually right on the screen, right?

00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:33.001
So this obviously happened in the South Pole.

00:37:34.000 --> 00:37:40.000
This fellow was down here as an experimenter,
not in radio, but down at the South

00:37:40.000 --> 00:37:41.001
Pole and he brought his
radio equipment with him.

00:37:41.001 --> 00:37:45.001
And he put the South Pole on the 1296 band.

00:37:46.000 --> 00:37:50.000
So it's another country,
another continent, Antarctica for people.

00:37:50.001 --> 00:37:56.000
And that uses a little antenna that he
stuck out in the south literally and was

00:37:56.000 --> 00:37:59.000
down there as well as a German explorer.

00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:02.000
And I'm just showing you what's needed.

00:38:02.001 --> 00:38:09.001
Here is an antenna from a fellow in Belarus.

00:38:11.001 --> 00:38:14.001
And he's got his antenna on his balcony.

00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:18.000
He's got a 1.2 meter dish.

00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:24.000
Actually, he was making contacts on CW
because I don't like to say that you have

00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:27.000
to just do things the easy
way or the easier way.

00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:32.001
You can also work some of these smaller
stations using the old fashioned way with

00:38:32.001 --> 00:38:35.001
Morse code or even single
side band in some cases.

00:38:38.001 --> 00:38:41.000
And I should correct my self theorem.

00:38:41.000 --> 00:38:43.001
She's saying,
What do I mean by single side band?

00:38:44.001 --> 00:38:47.000
And how many people know
even knows what I know.

00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:48.000
I had a question.

00:38:48.001 --> 00:38:52.000
Could you explain that something
before you about the lunar land?

00:38:53.001 --> 00:38:56.000
Well, what do you want to
know about the lunar lander?

00:38:56.000 --> 00:39:00.001
[...] think general population terms.

00:39:01.001 --> 00:39:03.001
There's a lot of the work [...] was doing.

00:39:05.000 --> 00:39:09.000
Well, I know it's hard for
me to answer that question.

00:39:09.000 --> 00:39:10.001
Let me finish this up and I'll come back.

00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:13.001
And I'm going to try and
speed up here and finish up.

00:39:13.001 --> 00:39:18.001
We're not too bad,
but I got to be done in a few minutes.

00:39:18.001 --> 00:39:24.000
I keep on on top of this and I'm going
to continue just showing you small

00:39:24.000 --> 00:39:31.000
antennas is actually a TV antenna that
someone's developed or applied and

00:39:31.000 --> 00:39:35.001
shows that you can work these
very small antennas off the moon.

00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.000
So you don't have to invest in big antennas.

00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:44.001
This is a friend of mine. He was a college
student at the time. This picture was

00:39:44.001 --> 00:39:51.000
made and he traveled around and
he had this relatively warm

00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:54.000
antenna and broke it up and carrying
his car and traveled around Europe

00:39:54.000 --> 00:39:56.001
and set up.

00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:01.001
He is right now in this picture in Monaco.

00:40:02.001 --> 00:40:06.000
So he drove Monaco.
No one's around and drove there late nights we

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:07.001
can set up right in the center of the town.

00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:13.000
Took his antenna out stuck it on a
on a a poly to lash it to and went

00:40:13.000 --> 00:40:15.000
on to work a bunch of people from Monaco.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:20.000
I was worried that he might get stopped
or something by the police and he

00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:21.001
did that it went all over the place.

00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:26.000
And where are places actually I should go.
I can go back.

00:40:27.001 --> 00:40:33.001
I was going to go back and this over here.
The picture over here here is here is

00:40:33.001 --> 00:40:37.000
him setting the same thing up pulling
the same trick and San Marino.

00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:44.001
He's not he doesn't do as much now he got
married and this is these all these are

00:40:44.001 --> 00:40:49.000
antennas are all at at 23 centimeters. Okay.

00:40:49.001 --> 00:40:56.000
That's the 1296 amateur band.
It's a little bit above one gigahertz 1

00:40:56.000 --> 00:41:02.001
.3 gigahertz would be a you think about
a gigahertz is a thousand megahertz

00:41:02.001 --> 00:41:04.000
for every one year and.

00:41:04.001 --> 00:41:11.001
So and I even got involved with this.
This shows me right over here when I was

00:41:11.001 --> 00:41:17.000
operating in Bermuda and my approach
was not to use the Yagi but to use I've

00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:20.000
always got involved since high
school and the stress dishes.

00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:26.000
So that's a small stress dish that I use
where I was in the parking lot behind

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:29.000
the hotel near their motors.

00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:35.001
Scooter building I this is just
a thing that to hold umbrellas.

00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:42.001
So that's where I put my antenna up.
And this is the antenna it the whole thing

00:41:42.001 --> 00:41:44.001
was, you know, carry on type luggage.

00:41:45.001 --> 00:41:49.001
We took the whole station there and you
can see my wife is cooperative sometimes

00:41:49.001 --> 00:41:52.001
moving this so.

00:41:52.001 --> 00:41:59.001
So there's all sorts of fun things you can do.
We've done

00:41:59.001 --> 00:42:02.001
a number of different countries using this.

00:42:03.001 --> 00:42:07.001
I'm just going to show you these just
other examples of small antennas that

00:42:07.001 --> 00:42:11.001
people that have used.
We're not talking about this is a meter right.

00:42:11.001 --> 00:42:17.000
So we're talking about antennas that are,
you know, are reasonable, the small

00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:21.001
size that you can make up and work.
Here's another one.

00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:26.001
This one is being used. We've got higher
in frequency. Higher in frequency you

00:42:26.001 --> 00:42:32.001
go. The smaller the antennas you can get
by with. But from most radio amateurs,

00:42:33.001 --> 00:42:36.001
it's relatively easy to get on 1296 today.

00:42:36.001 --> 00:42:41.001
It is readily available. And without my
message here is you don't need a real big

00:42:41.001 --> 00:42:48.000
antenna to go out and start making
contacts and working all around the world.

00:42:48.001 --> 00:42:55.001
Though I'm showing other options.
This really this slide is really can only

00:42:55.001 --> 00:42:59.001
probably be appreciated by people
who are active in amateur radio.

00:43:00.001 --> 00:43:07.000
This shows a yaggy antenna. Those things
with those little wires coming out. This

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:11.001
is for three centimeters. So you can't
see it there but the active elements with

00:43:11.001 --> 00:43:14.000
little tiny little things are a little stand.

00:43:15.001 --> 00:43:20.000
And they're making this yaggy antenna
work at three centimeters and you see

00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:27.000
signals off the moon.
It's kind of a close up of the antenna.

00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:32.000
As you can see more of what it is. And

00:43:32.000 --> 00:43:39.000
there, this is a station in Australia.
He's worked a lot of different places. And

00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:43.001
he's used the yaggy antenna to receive
signals up there though most of the time

00:43:43.001 --> 00:43:46.000
he uses a dish, I much must say.

00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:52.001
This is another example of a small antenna.
This one over here is a half a meter.

00:43:53.000 --> 00:43:58.001
But this was demonstrated at one of the
conferences I was at and he was showing

00:43:58.001 --> 00:44:04.000
you could use this half a meter
antenna to receive a beacon station.

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:08.001
That's a station that's continuously
transmitting a signal off the moon, even

00:44:08.001 --> 00:44:14.001
though this is only a half a meter in size.
So there are a lot of

00:44:14.001 --> 00:44:16.001
possibilities.

00:44:17.001 --> 00:44:22.001
Now, I'm going to jump over this.
This talks about digital basics. Some of the

00:44:22.001 --> 00:44:27.001
things that should catch your eye here
is W1JR Joe Taylor. He's the one who

00:44:27.001 --> 00:44:34.001
started this whole thing off and came
up with this very popular system. By

00:44:34.001 --> 00:44:40.001
the way, interesting, we talk about amateur
radio today that this started out in

00:44:40.001 --> 00:44:47.000
the RF and microwave frequencies,
but JT digital communications because it's so

00:44:47.000 --> 00:44:49.001
easy to do has taken over HF.

00:44:49.001 --> 00:44:56.001
And I'd say the majority of HF today is
now being done. I say HF, this is a short

00:44:56.001 --> 00:45:01.000
way to answer. People spend their time,
it's easy to work using the atmosphere or

00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:06.000
long distances, but they've adapted using
digital techniques too because they're

00:45:06.000 --> 00:45:08.000
just interested in getting this new country.

00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:15.000
And if they can do it easily,
digitally easier than using CW or voice, it

00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:21.000
has become very, very, very, very popular.
And I'm just

00:45:21.000 --> 00:45:27.000
here getting into some of the practical
aspects of operating digital, what the

00:45:27.000 --> 00:45:33.000
screen looks like and the information
you have and that you can

00:45:33.000 --> 00:45:34.001
make this thing work.

00:45:35.001 --> 00:45:41.000
This is some different technologies that
are used depending on the frequency that

00:45:41.000 --> 00:45:46.000
you're operating at. And this is a mode
that was developed for very, very high

00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:52.001
frequency and it shows a signal station
that I worked in in Hungary using a

00:45:52.001 --> 00:45:54.001
76 centimeter.

00:45:54.001 --> 00:46:00.000
So it's about three quarters of a meter
dish on three centimeter, on the three

00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:05.000
centimeter band. And I can go on and show
other things. This is a station with

00:46:05.000 --> 00:46:11.001
two Yagi's in Taiwan.
China is, by the way, quite active on EME.

00:46:11.001 --> 00:46:18.000
The Chinese have realized the importance
of technology and that amateur radio is

00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:24.000
a good way to get technology among
their citizens. So now there's a lot of

00:46:24.000 --> 00:46:30.000
microwave and higher frequency amateur
radio work being done by the Chinese,

00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:31.001
which didn't happen before.

00:46:33.001 --> 00:46:39.001
And, you know, EME, as I say, is a
fascinating propagation. I'm giving a lot of

00:46:39.001 --> 00:46:44.000
details here that make why if something's
too easy, there's no point in doing

00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.001
right. So, but it's not that easy.

00:46:46.001 --> 00:46:51.000
There are things you've got to know,
there's tricks you have to apply and learn.

00:46:51.001 --> 00:46:54.001
When you bounce signal off the moon,
you run through this whole document.

00:46:54.001 --> 00:46:56.001
Everyone knows about the train this whistle.

00:46:57.000 --> 00:47:01.000
You're trained by the frequency of the
whistle changes. The same thing when you

00:47:01.000 --> 00:47:05.000
bounce the signal off the saddle for the moon,
its frequency changes. So you got

00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.001
to be able to correct and take
care of the accomplish dip.

00:47:08.001 --> 00:47:13.001
You got to understand the effects of sky
noise in the background. You know, you

00:47:13.001 --> 00:47:17.000
don't want to operate in the middle of the
Milky Way because a lot of noisy stars

00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:19.000
over there when the moon is there.

00:47:19.001 --> 00:47:24.001
There are certain frequencies.
There's Faraday rotation, which means the

00:47:24.001 --> 00:47:28.001
polarization of your signal. I have a
good way of illustrating this, but it's

00:47:28.001 --> 00:47:30.001
rotated when you go through the atmosphere.

00:47:30.001 --> 00:47:37.000
In fact, discovered by Faraday,
there is lunar or vibrations, which now

00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:41.000
people are smart. They calculate.
This means that depending on the angles and the

00:47:41.000 --> 00:47:46.001
way the moon is moving,
you get less of this variation.

00:47:46.001 --> 00:47:50.001
The signal off the moon is called vibrations
through the walking of the moon. The

00:47:50.001 --> 00:47:54.000
moon rocks. It's not obvious.
You look at the orbit of the earth and the

00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:55.001
moon. The moon is actually rocking.

00:47:55.001 --> 00:48:00.001
And that rocking only takes a little bit
because of the moon's surface is not

00:48:00.001 --> 00:48:04.001
smooth. And that changes the
signal that comes back to you.

00:48:04.001 --> 00:48:10.000
And so you want to operate, if you can,
where the vibration effect is as low,

00:48:10.001 --> 00:48:15.000
slow as possible.
So your signal doesn't get all broken up.

00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:21.001
So this brings me to the end and
the key points that I want to

00:48:21.001 --> 00:48:28.000
make here, that EME is challenging,
but all you need is a YAGI or a small dish if

00:48:28.000 --> 00:48:31.001
you're an amateur radio operator,
if you're not a radio amateur, or you need to

00:48:31.001 --> 00:48:33.001
get your license,
then you can do this relatively easy.

00:48:33.001 --> 00:48:38.000
Well, you can use your tech license for
these frequencies and you can still be a

00:48:38.000 --> 00:48:44.000
big gun, as they say.
It's pretty easy with big stations, but there's

00:48:44.000 --> 00:48:46.000
still a lot to it.

00:48:46.001 --> 00:48:50.000
And I just illustrate some of the things
I was saying before, accurate frequency,

00:48:50.001 --> 00:48:54.001
time. You got to be able to point your
antenna at the moon. You got to consider

00:48:54.001 --> 00:48:58.000
the Doppler effect.
You got to consider polarization effects.

00:48:58.000 --> 00:49:03.000
They will enter into the playing the game.
So you got to get out besides the

00:49:03.000 --> 00:49:07.001
rules. You've got to understand how
to apply the rules to be effective.

00:49:08.000 --> 00:49:14.001
But a weak station, all the above,
plus must understand how to use the using

00:49:14.001 --> 00:49:20.000
digital technology, understand the limits
of the digital technology that you're

00:49:20.000 --> 00:49:21.001
using, and you can go further.

00:49:24.001 --> 00:49:30.001
And there's a, the rest of this is more
technical. This is just a frequency I'm

00:49:30.001 --> 00:49:36.000
telling people to operate on.
I do a newsletter for people to bounce radio

00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:38.001
signals off the moon at the higher frequencies.

00:49:40.000 --> 00:49:44.001
And that means 432 or 70 centimeters above.
I do this newsletter. I've

00:49:44.001 --> 00:49:46.001
been doing it for almost 15 years.

00:49:48.000 --> 00:49:53.000
And that's just the link to it. Anyone
emails me and be happy to send it. You can

00:49:53.000 --> 00:49:58.000
just do a search on my call letters and EME,
and you can find the newsletter.

00:49:58.000 --> 00:50:04.000
It's, it has its own page where it's kept.
And I'm going to stop here.

00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:06.000
Excuse me.

00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:13.000
[...] will make up for acting.
Yes, if you go to a particular frequency that a

00:50:13.000 --> 00:50:20.000
lot of the digital activity is centered
on 70 kilohertz above the frequency.

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:24.001
So, this would be this being 14070.

00:50:25.000 --> 00:50:29.001
It was 432. Oh, seven, etc.

00:50:31.000 --> 00:50:35.001
It's really that first hundred kilohertz
of frequency, because you can operate

00:50:35.001 --> 00:50:40.000
over a very narrow bandwidth,
and people will spread out. That's kind of like

00:50:40.000 --> 00:50:44.001
where you don't know, you're on your own
opinions and you look at all second.

00:50:48.000 --> 00:50:50.001
Question and your question
was on the lunar lander.

00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:59.001
Well, the lunar lander,
I don't think is operational right now.

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:05.001
It was, but when they left the module on.

00:51:06.001 --> 00:51:07.001
They didn't.

00:51:08.001 --> 00:51:12.001
I'm trying to remember the things I left
on the moon. They didn't leave the lunar

00:51:12.001 --> 00:51:19.000
lander went back up, but they didn't
leave some interesting items on the

00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:22.000
moon that help communications.

00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:27.001
Offered these boxes on the moon.

00:51:27.001 --> 00:51:30.001
[...]

00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:33.001
It's really great keynote here.

00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:36.000
But when you have a signal, what's up?

00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:42.000
The room,
they have these types of triangular type boxes.

00:51:43.000 --> 00:51:43.001
It's very interesting.

00:51:43.001 --> 00:51:50.001
Basically, it's this three dimensional box,
and it's reflected

00:51:50.001 --> 00:51:53.000
on its reflected back in the same direction.

00:51:54.001 --> 00:51:57.001
So, if you're never designed for lasers.

00:51:58.001 --> 00:52:04.000
So if you send a laser up, if you have
a high power laser and hit one of these

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.001
reflectors that are left on the moon,
you can make very accurate measurements.

00:52:08.001 --> 00:52:13.000
The time it takes to send the laser to
move up there and those are still present

00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:16.001
and working on the moon.

00:52:17.000 --> 00:52:21.001
I don't know if an interesting putting
transmitters and repeaters on the moon

00:52:21.001 --> 00:52:26.000
itself, but I don't know if any
repeaters on the moon right now

00:52:26.000 --> 00:52:27.001
that are currently working.

00:52:27.001 --> 00:52:29.000
That's something [...]

00:52:30.000 --> 00:52:35.000
It's not that going well, who was interested
in doing the repeater on the moon.

00:52:35.000 --> 00:52:35.001
We're excited.

00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:37.000
The sun was interesting.

00:52:37.001 --> 00:52:40.001
[...
] before it did they actually have a repeat.

00:52:40.001 --> 00:52:44.001
No, there was a fella was since
passed away Nick Marshall.

00:52:45.000 --> 00:52:48.000
But he said, well,
we tried this whole project movement.

00:52:48.001 --> 00:52:50.000
And we tried to get funding.

00:52:50.001 --> 00:52:54.000
But the repeater on the moon itself.

00:52:54.001 --> 00:52:56.001
You know, there's a lot.

00:52:56.001 --> 00:52:59.000
We don't have time.

00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:02.000
I'm up to sit here and talk about satellites.

00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:05.001
Like you probably have
never heard of the launch.

00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:07.001
[...] this launch?

00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:10.000
We got a few people.

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:12.000
Most of you do not know the launch.

00:53:12.001 --> 00:53:15.000
Those are points that are people.

00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:16.001
[...] stable points.

00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:21.000
You go in order to stay there.

00:53:21.001 --> 00:53:24.000
And there are a bunch of launch
points around the earth.

00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:28.001
Space junk accumulates in the launch points.

00:53:29.000 --> 00:53:32.001
And so those are our spots
for you to put repeaters on.

00:53:33.001 --> 00:53:35.000
Our latest telescope.

00:53:36.000 --> 00:53:36.001
Yes.

00:53:36.001 --> 00:53:37.001
It's in the launch.

00:53:38.001 --> 00:53:39.000
[...]

00:53:40.001 --> 00:53:41.000
I know.

00:53:41.000 --> 00:53:42.000
I'm not [...]

00:53:42.000 --> 00:53:42.001
[...]

00:53:42.001 --> 00:53:42.001
[...] self-hierd.

00:53:42.001 --> 00:53:45.000
So there are always interesting things.

00:53:45.001 --> 00:53:49.000
I can talk about anomalies here.

00:53:49.001 --> 00:53:50.000
You want to hear things.

00:53:50.001 --> 00:53:50.001
He likes.

00:53:52.001 --> 00:53:54.000
Things that we can't explain.

00:53:54.001 --> 00:53:55.001
When in fact.

00:53:56.001 --> 00:53:58.000
He was Apollo 13.

00:53:59.000 --> 00:53:59.001
And a group of us.

00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:03.000
T-C-M-J.

00:54:03.001 --> 00:54:06.000
And we set up the Apollo astronauts.

00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:08.000
And they went around.

00:54:09.001 --> 00:54:11.000
Quite a few years ago.

00:54:11.000 --> 00:54:13.000
More than 25 years ago.

00:54:14.001 --> 00:54:16.000
And we set up a dish.

00:54:17.001 --> 00:54:19.001
A whole life lost for
clothesline for a lot of years.

00:54:20.001 --> 00:54:21.001
The clothesline.

00:54:22.000 --> 00:54:24.001
We put the dish on top of the clothesline.

00:54:25.000 --> 00:54:25.001
The ropes.

00:54:26.001 --> 00:54:27.001
How much room?

00:54:31.000 --> 00:54:32.001
Don't forget those.

00:54:32.001 --> 00:54:34.000
[...] set up.

00:54:34.001 --> 00:54:34.001
[...] are the ones that we set up.

00:54:34.001 --> 00:54:34.001
They are the ones that we set up.

00:54:34.001 --> 00:54:35.000
They are the ones that we set up.

00:54:35.001 --> 00:54:37.000
And they put this dish up there.

00:54:37.001 --> 00:54:39.000
And there's three of the [...]

00:54:39.001 --> 00:54:42.000
And four of them are based before the ones.

00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:43.000
And you're watching this.

00:54:43.001 --> 00:54:44.001
And this is true.

00:54:45.000 --> 00:54:46.000
And one day we were.

00:54:46.001 --> 00:54:47.000
We picked up.

00:54:47.001 --> 00:54:48.000
We actually hear the asking.

00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:49.001
And they had this.

00:54:50.000 --> 00:54:52.000
And they open the sub.

00:54:52.001 --> 00:54:52.001
And so.

00:54:54.001 --> 00:54:55.001
So let me show you an information.

00:54:55.001 --> 00:54:56.001
[...]

00:54:57.000 --> 00:54:57.001
[...] voice channel.

00:54:58.001 --> 00:54:59.000
That's up.

00:55:01.001 --> 00:55:02.001
Is the astronauts.

00:55:03.001 --> 00:55:04.000
We have a little.

00:55:04.001 --> 00:55:04.001
Displaced.

00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:05.001
We see the spectrum.

00:55:07.001 --> 00:55:08.001
And we're sitting there.

00:55:10.001 --> 00:55:11.001
And.

00:55:11.001 --> 00:55:12.000
[...]

00:55:12.001 --> 00:55:13.000
[...]

00:55:13.001 --> 00:55:14.000
You know, which are.

00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:15.001
Invisible, but they're not new.

00:55:16.000 --> 00:55:17.000
They all go up.

00:55:17.001 --> 00:55:18.000
Just like this.

00:55:19.000 --> 00:55:20.001
They went up off the screen.

00:55:21.001 --> 00:55:23.000
And after that we were using that.

00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:24.000
[...]

00:55:25.001 --> 00:55:25.001
[...]

00:55:28.000 --> 00:55:29.000
It's not very long.

00:55:31.001 --> 00:55:32.001
And we don't know.

00:55:33.000 --> 00:55:33.000
How.

00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:35.000
What we understand.

00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:36.001
What.

00:55:37.001 --> 00:55:37.001
[...]

00:55:37.001 --> 00:55:37.001
[...]

00:55:37.001 --> 00:55:37.001
[...]

00:55:38.001 --> 00:55:39.001
That signal.

00:55:41.001 --> 00:55:42.000
And this was.

00:55:43.001 --> 00:55:44.001
We were.

00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:47.000
We were listening to.

00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:48.001
What?

00:55:48.001 --> 00:55:49.000
[...]

00:55:49.001 --> 00:55:51.000
Cause that.

00:55:52.000 --> 00:55:54.001
In terms of.

00:55:54.001 --> 00:55:54.001
That's the [...]

00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:56.000
[...]

00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:57.000
A thousand times.

00:56:00.001 --> 00:56:03.000
I don't have any.

00:56:04.000 --> 00:56:04.001
I don't have any.

00:56:04.001 --> 00:56:05.000
Thought about.

00:56:06.000 --> 00:56:06.000
[...]

00:56:07.001 --> 00:56:07.001
[...]

00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:10.000
[...]

00:56:11.001 --> 00:56:12.000
Never.

00:56:14.000 --> 00:56:15.000
[...]

00:56:15.001 --> 00:56:16.001
Cause that.

00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:18.000
There are a bunch of people.

00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:18.001
It wasn't.

00:56:18.001 --> 00:56:19.000
It wasn't just me.

00:56:20.000 --> 00:56:21.001
We must have about seven people.

00:56:22.000 --> 00:56:23.000
That's the sort of.

00:56:24.000 --> 00:56:24.000
This happened.

00:56:25.000 --> 00:56:27.000
And that's one of the things that I've seen.

00:56:27.001 --> 00:56:29.000
I have no explanation of.

00:56:29.001 --> 00:56:31.000
There's no question.

00:56:32.001 --> 00:56:33.001
I think physically happening.

00:56:34.001 --> 00:56:35.001
It wasn't something that the wire.

00:56:36.001 --> 00:56:37.000
[...]

00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:38.001
[...]

00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:43.000
There's a lot of strange
things still happening.

00:56:44.000 --> 00:56:45.001
We can [...]

00:56:46.000 --> 00:56:46.001
I know.

00:56:46.001 --> 00:56:48.000
I think I should end this now.

00:56:48.001 --> 00:56:49.000
My time point.

00:56:49.000 --> 00:56:50.000
We want to make sure we.

00:56:50.001 --> 00:56:51.000
We get to the.

00:56:52.001 --> 00:56:53.001
The keynote.

00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.000
After the keynote.

00:56:55.001 --> 00:56:57.001
We're going to have a.

00:56:59.001 --> 00:57:00.001
A interactive forum.

00:57:01.001 --> 00:57:04.001
We're going to bring out what's
left of our refreshments out there.

00:57:04.001 --> 00:57:06.001
So you got something to eat if
you're staying for the banquet.

00:57:08.000 --> 00:57:08.001
But you're welcome.

00:57:08.001 --> 00:57:11.000
You don't have to go to
the banquet to stay there.

00:57:11.000 --> 00:57:12.001
We're going to run an interactive format.

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:13.000
Forum.

00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:15.000
This for people that are here.

00:57:15.000 --> 00:57:18.001
We're going to talk about
electric cars and get everyone.

00:57:18.001 --> 00:57:20.001
Let them have their two cents.

00:57:21.001 --> 00:57:21.001
You know what?

00:57:21.001 --> 00:57:25.001
There's a lot of different opinions on
cars and a lot of the people in the

00:57:25.001 --> 00:57:28.001
audience have strong opinions.

00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:31.001
They have different directions
than just our speakers.

00:57:31.001 --> 00:57:32.001
They listened to the speaker.

00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:36.001
So we're going to give everyone a
chance to get involved and express

00:57:36.001 --> 00:57:38.000
their opinions at that time.

00:57:38.001 --> 00:57:39.000
Thank you.

00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:50.000
Thank you.